1. svensvarvare

    svensvarvare Newbie

    I have noticed that it is not uncommon to see Trabis with positive camber angle at the rear suspension and I have the same problem on my own car.
    Does anyone know why this happens and what you can do about it?
  2. mati0921

    mati0921 Loyal Comrade

    They are all like that, and when you load up the boot it will move them closer to 0 camber. :)
    You cant do anything about it other than fitting suspension from something else, and i dont think that is allowed in sweden. :)

    Attached Files:

  3. svensvarvare

    svensvarvare Newbie

    Ok it sounds like there's nothing to do about it,and it is nothing that bothers me that much:)
    but i guess it must be very common with unevenly worn rear tires.
  4. mbeamish

    mbeamish Loyal Comrade

  5. Aaron

    Aaron Leader

    any reports on how it works?
  6. mbeamish

    mbeamish Loyal Comrade

    I fitted this kit to a car i used to own it does corrrect the camber very successfully but i didn't really notice much change in handling . You also have to fit slightly longer rear flexi-hoses
  7. radioman

    radioman Premium Member Forum Donor

    Are the above comments aimed at leaf spring rear
    Mine is rear coil
    Are the cones made for coil fitted at the wishbone mounts near the centre of the vehicle
    Not seen any pictures of a corrector fitted
    Want to try & correct the wayward rear end
  8. You seem to be confusing Positive camber with Negative camber. Positive camber is when the wheels are wider apart at the bottom than the top. Negative camber is when the wheels are closer together at the bottom, instead. The easy way to remember which is which is to think of a country lane which the farmer's tractor has pressed the edge of the road down, leaving a 'humped' profile to it's cross-section.... this is a display of a road with Negative camber. In order for a vehicle tyre to sit at 90degrees, 'squarely', on that road, it needs the wheels to tip inwards at the lower edge in order to conform with the angled surface. Simples !
    The reason the suspension is set up like this on Trabants is two-fold. Firstly it applies an element of over-steer to counteract the natural tendency to understeer exhibited by light front-wheel drive cars, and secondly, because many of the roads they were designed to operate on were loose surface, Negative cambered farm tracks.
  9. Nullzwei

    Nullzwei Newbie

    "You seem to be confusing Positive camber with Negative camber. Positive camber is when the wheels are wider apart at the bottom than the top. Negative camber is when the wheels are closer together at the bottom, instead. "

    That is exactly backwards, please see here http://www.abarthisti.it/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Camber_Explanation.jpg.

    The reason you want negative camber at the rear on a light trailing arm car is to decrease oversteer, while negative camber at the front will decrease understeer. Negative at both ends can get you nice neutral handling if your corner weights are about equal (+/- 5 -10 lbs wet with driver)

    There is a nice chart on how you can monkey with handling characteristics here: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=58
  10. turbofiat124

    turbofiat124 Loyal Comrade

    Unless someone has adjusted mine, I have not noticed the rear wheels pointing outward at the top.

    Or did this just effect earlier models? Here is a 75 model and you can definitely notice the rear wheels pointing outward at the top:

    [​IMG]
  11. radioman

    radioman Premium Member Forum Donor

    My 1990 model has this undesirable trait !
    Makes the handling far from good but gives following drivers a good laugh as you wind on serious opposite lock to keep it pointing in the general direction of travel
    A winter time job me thinks
  12. Nullzwei

    Nullzwei Newbie

    The repair manual that has been posted on these fora indicates that unladen the rear camberloo is something like +4 degrees, but laden goes to - 2 degrees. Unfortunately, it doesn't say what loaded is, but 4 hulking Party members would be a good guess.

    - 2 degrees would be overkill on a street car, I generally run -3 on the rear on my race car. I am going to get the Trabi to neutral camber empty with the kits mentioned above and what ever shimming is needed.

    Another thing one can do if one has coils instead of the leaf rear spring, is to cut away some or all of a loop of the coil spring. It has to be done symmetrically and not more than one guarter of a turn at a time.

    Shortening the spring will not affect the spring rate, but will reduce the unladen positive camber. It will affect the rake some but in a Trabant, the effect would be negligible, but it will also shift the weight rear ward which is a good thing as theas things are too nose heavy.
  13. Wartburg353W

    Wartburg353W Loyal Comrade

    It's more pronounced right after you've had it jacked up off the ground and settles down after a while. It's less obvious with old original springs and gets real obvious when you change to brand new stock height springs. That photo looks like somehow it has been given a bit of a rakish stance. Lowered in front maybe? I don't think that's as old as 1975.
  14. turbofiat124

    turbofiat124 Loyal Comrade

    I snapped some photos of the rear wheels on my Trabant. I have not laid a level against the tire to see how far it's off but to me, the camber looks just like any other car.

    I'm not sure why. Unless it's like Wartburg353 says. The rear suspension appears as though it sits a bit lower in the rear than the front. Unless it's an optical illusion due to the quaterpanel arches.

    I know that leaf springs are bad about sagging. The ones on my 68 Ford had sagged about 2 to 3 inches when I first got it.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  15. Austinpowers

    Austinpowers Loyal Comrade

  16. Nullzwei

    Nullzwei Newbie

    I have not laid a level against the tire to see how far it's off but to me, the camber looks just like any other car.

    Rather than use a level, if you don't have access to a camber gauge, a better tool is a carpenter's square, assuming your garage floor is level.

    The rear suspension appears as though it sits a bit lower in the rear than the front. Unless it's an optical illusion due to the quaterpanel arches.

    Measure from the garage floor to the bottom of the side frame in front of the rear wheel, and behind the front. The should be about equal with the front a little lower (not surprising reflecting the 59:41 weight distribution) . The repair manual states that the distance is 155mm (6.1 inches), YMMV depending on age, whether the tires are the stock size, etc.

    I know that leaf springs are bad about sagging.

    With the exception of the fact that there are no half shafts, the single transverse leaf spring of the non-coil spring Trabants are very much like that of early Corvettes. Regardless, if the leaf spring is sagging, that will lower the rear end, and reduce the factory built in and totally useless positive camber.
  17. Austinpowers

    Austinpowers Loyal Comrade

  18. Razibilla

    Razibilla Puttering Along

    how do the camber correction cups work/fit. Seen the rear units for sale at trabantwelt but cannot figure where and how they would fit.
  19. Nullzwei

    Nullzwei Newbie

    They fit between the floorpan and rubber bushing on the upperside of the transverse arm of the trailing/transverse arm (this is the mounting point closest to the centerline). Because the trailing/transverse arm is a fixed unit along with the brake backing plate through which the stub axle runs, lowering the transverse arm will cause the unit to rotate around the rubber bushings at the front end of the trailing arm (the outboard bushings) which rotates the brake backing plate & stub axle along with it which decreases the positive camber.

    If you look at page 87 in the Parts catalogue from the tech forum there is a good picture of the trailing/transverse arm, the camber corrections fit between bushing 5 at the right side of the picture and the floorpan, the bolt that comes with the kit replaces bolt 7. The kits fit over Part 6 shown on page 137 of the Parts catalogue which are the trailing/transverse arm mounting points.

    The pictures here should give you a good idea how they fit. http://www.reich-tuning.de/en/tunin...rection-rear-for-coil-spring-for-trabant.html The leaf spring version work the same way.
  20. Razibilla

    Razibilla Puttering Along

    Your a legend, thanks

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