1. turbofiat124

    turbofiat124 Loyal Comrade

  2. mati0921

    mati0921 Loyal Comrade

    Biggest problem is getting oil pressure to it. Something with a separate oil container and a electric oil pump maybe. :)

    Those 15hp would probably be easyer to get with bigger bore, exhaust, carb, and a few other things. :)
  3. RHFabrications

    RHFabrications Loyal Comrade

    I'm sure somebody somewhere must have turbocharged a trabi 2stroke but yeah, an oil feed at the least will be required and then you've probably got a mountain of setting up with building manifolds which work at high pressure and rpm and after all that I bet it'd be unreliable and as fast as say, a mini 1000 at best. Of course, i would love to see a Trabi with a turbo conversion but I bet you could do a lot more damage with a polo engined Trab and a polo g40?
  4. Austinpowers

    Austinpowers Loyal Comrade

    It would be a hell of a job to turbocharged a 2 stroke. As the boost would go straight out the exhaust port. You need some kind of valve to block of the exhaust, as well as an oil supply for the turbo. If I was to have a go at boosting a trabi then I would try a supercharger. Plenty of low down power to get you off the line and no oil feed needed.
  5. turbofiat124

    turbofiat124 Loyal Comrade

    I've turbocharged three Fiats but they have all been 4 strokers. I do have a book on turbos that covers turbocharging 2 strokes. I'll see what it says.

    In reality, turbocharging is actually cheaper than modifying the engine (buying parts and machine shop work). It's sort of cheating in a way. I know of several people who have dumped allot more money in their Fiat engines than I did using used turbos. Of course if you are paying someone to build a custom turbo system, then no it's probably not any cheaper.

    LDM wants almost 500 euros just for 680 cc pistons and heads. Not to mention all the other things they suggest. I'm assuming this setup will yield 45 HP? Looks to me like once all is said and done, you'd end up with over $1500 in an engine.

    http://www.ldm-tuning.de/en/trabant_601/tuning_parts/engine/

    I have heard of people turbocharging 2 stroke snowmobiles and jet skis so it is possible.

    Yeah you would need a dedicated oil system. Such as a dry sump system. To cool the oil I suppose the oil cooler could be mounted on the backside of the engine and use the engine fan. Perhaps fabricate a piece of metal like the rear shield (or just cut a hole through the existing one) and mount the oil cooler there so the engine fan would blow air through it. As far as the loosing the heat exchanger from the turbo, I don't know how much heat the turbo would create by heating up the oil, but a shroud could be fabricated around the cooler and a flex hose ran to the existing heater diverter valve on the firewall.

    If you blow through the carburetor (you would have to anyway with a modern turbo) then something would have to be done to over ride the positive pressure in the fuel bowl. Most likely a fuel pump would need to be used and the pressure reduced down to 1 PSI (~.5 PSI is the head pressure of 6 gallons/24 liters of gasoline) then raise it one pound for every pound of boost using a Malpassi carbed 1:1 fuel pressure regulator like the one I used on my Yugo.

    Another trick could be to run boost pressure to the fuel tank itself and pressurize the tank during boost. That way the fuel pressure remains constant but I don't think this method would work very well. Especially if the fuel tank get's too low. Then there would be this large volume of air that needs to be pressurized.

    One reason I've always preferred turbos over superchargers is most superchargers require about 14 HP just to turn them (like an AC compressor). They work great on V8s that already make 200+HP so you wouldn't miss 14 HP but never thought they were ideal for 4 cylinders making 100 HP or less.

    I just wonder if the head gaskets could withstand the extra pressure. Without having to O-ring the piston jugs. I don't know of anyone in my area that does such a thing but because they are jugs and not an engine block they could be easily shipped to someone that does O-ringing.
  6. Austinpowers

    Austinpowers Loyal Comrade

    One thing to remember is that trabi motor mybe only 600cc but it's a 2 stroke. So in affect its the equivalent to a 1200cc 4 stroke motor, so would that turbo have enough capacity to boost it?
  7. turbofiat124

    turbofiat124 Loyal Comrade

    Since it's rated for a 500 to 600 cc engine, I don't think it would really matter whether it would be a 2 stroke or 4 stroke. Displacement is displacement.

    On the other hand, we are talking about pre WW2 technology versus modern technology. My 4 stroke 520cc lawnmower engine makes 21 hp. These days a modern 600cc 2 stroke engine makes around 60hp.

    The T25 I installed on my Yugo came off a 2.3 liter Saab 9000. By all accounts you would think this turbo would be too large to spool up on a 1500cc engine. But once I put a 2.25" exhaust system on it, the turbo would produce 7 lbs of boost in 2nd gear to spin one of the front tires.

    I just don't know if going to all that trouble of building a system would be worth a 13 HP gain. But on a Trabant, it maybe quite noticeable. Or if there is an easier method to get 13 BHP such as installing one of those sport exhaust systems and a larger exhaust system.

    I'm just worried about damaging the engine since good rebuilding crankshafts are hard to come by. I don't know how strong these engines are. 1500 Fiat motors are a dime a dozen and I know for a fact can withstand a 50% increase in power without damaging the pistons or crank as long as the engine is not detonating.

    There is a motorcycle guy here in town who is supposed to be the 2 cycle king who may know how to get more power out of a Trabant engine. I have a spare engine which I think is good I thought about taking to him to see if he could find a way to modify it. Maybe he has some larger jugs and pistons from a motorcycle laying around that might fit the block.
  8. Austinpowers

    Austinpowers Loyal Comrade

    There is plenty of room for improvement on a Trabi's motor.Porting & polishing will make a huge difference as will a bigger carb. The one thing that makes a big difference to a 2 stroke is the expansion pipe.
    The big downside with highly Tuninng a 2 stroke is that they don't last long, and drinks fuel at an alarming rate.
    A friend in Hungary has a Trabnt rally car and it will barely reach 12 mpg, and it makes 56 bhp.
  9. turbofiat124

    turbofiat124 Loyal Comrade

    I figured the expansion pipe would make the engine run more efficient because it would be pulling in fuel that would normally go out the exhaust pipe.
  10. Austinpowers

    Austinpowers Loyal Comrade

    On my Trabi when I put on a sports expansion pipe, the power band moved up the Rev range. And when I put the Mikuni carburetor on it really shifted.
  11. turbofiat124

    turbofiat124 Loyal Comrade

    Or, how about a Suzuki 55hp 500cc snowmobile engine! Currently only $10 with no reserve and $70 shipping. It might be worth buying regardless to put on my non running go-kart! The guy says it "ran" a year ago but has currently has no spark.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/272052577871?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    http://www.ehow.com/list_7762668_arctic-2-stroke-engine-specs.html

    Looks a lot like a Trabbi engine. Too bad it's not an Austrian made Rotax . It would be nice to keep the car all European.

    [​IMG]

    Here's one issue. Every snowmobile engine I've seen have the carbs on the backside of the engine. The carbs might conflict with the transverse leaf spring. That might require some sort of custom "cobra head" intake manifold and a single 2 barrel downdraft carburetor. But they might sit low enough to clear the spring.

    [​IMG]

    It even comes with a recoil starter in case the battery goes flat! Just run the cord through the firewall next to the petcock valve and give it a good yank!

    [​IMG]

    Other issue is the electrical system. More than likely the magneto puts out 12 volts so that might require converting the whole car over to 12 volts unless the car already has a 12 volt electrical system. Also the wattage maybe an issue. Would it have generate enough watts to run the headlamps? I don't know how a secondary electrical system like a generator or alternator could be driven off the engine. Unless I could do away with the recoil start and install a pulley to drive my 6 volt Chevrolet alternator..

    The flywheel might require some machine work to mate to the crankshaft. I only see 2 mounting holes for an adapter plate to go between the engine and transmission. That might an issue. Unless there are two threaded holes underneath the block for a lower bracket.

    [​IMG]

    I wish I had another non running Trabant to experiment with to put this engine in.
  12. Austinpowers

    Austinpowers Loyal Comrade

    Now if that was for sale in the UK I would have it. I think that could be made to work in a trabi. I have access to a lathe so could make some pulleys for an alternater and sort out a clutch. As it's a 2 stroke you could mount the motor at an angle. so the exhaust pointing down and the carburettors pointing up, or the other way, which ever would give you the most clearance.
  13. 'bant

    'bant Loyal Comrade

    I thought that three cylinder Kubota D902 might make for an interesting alternative engine for a Trabant although I am not sure if it would fit in the engine bay. In any case you'd need to raise the final drive as the maximum power (25 bhp) is developed at 3600 rpm. Otherwise torque and power are similar to a Trabant two stroke.

    I have a soft spot for the Wabant conversion. Keep it East German and two stroke and get lots more power and torque from a stock Wartburg engine.
  14. turbofiat124

    turbofiat124 Loyal Comrade

    I've thought the same thing!

    A guy I work with who works on lawnmowers has a rebuilt Kubota 3 cylinder diesel including the injector pump he offered to sell me for around $300. I'm not sure what it came off of. I'm not real sure it would even fit. But I suppose if you can shove a Wartburg 3 cylinder engine into a Trabant it might be possible.
  15. Austinpowers

    Austinpowers Loyal Comrade

    Some years ago we had a Aixam 500 micro car that had a 2 cylinder Kubota Diesel engine. It was quick off the mark but soon ran out of steam. It was also very loud and would shake the car to bits. Quite literally as I was forever glueing bits back on as the body was made of plastic. In the end the headgasget went on it and would be more cost & aggravation than it was worth.
    Plus the other thing to consider is that it will be a very heavy compared to the Trabi engine.

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